You're not the only one who dislikes the 7.25" radius. I find it infuriating that Fender continues to use it on guitars I'd otherwise really enjoy playing! Not really a big deal for the Bass VI, but for a regular guitar, 7.25" is simply a dealbreaker for me. It's a real shame, I'd have probably otherwise gotten a Jaguar from this line ... though IMO the prices for the MIM guitars are getting too high, so it would certainly have been a challenge to justify paying what they're asking. (but for 9.5", I'd have found a way to make it happen)

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Last edited: Sep 19, 2023 10:09:54

Personally, I prefer a 7.25” radius, although I’m happy enough with 9.5” too.

Los Fantasticos

I prefer 7.25" as well. To each their own.

MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.

Yeah ... seriously ... it's 2023 ... why does ANY builder use a butt-adjust truss rod that requires removing the neck?

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chiba wrote:

Yeah ... seriously ... it's 2023 ... why does ANY builder use a butt-adjust truss rod that requires removing the neck?

The tyranny of vintage authenticity. Some of these old ideas were abandoned for good reason.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Oh no no no..sorry needed to clarify. I prefer vintage frets. Vintage height. Vintage width. Don't like Jumbo, don't like tall.
Fender got it right the first time with the offsets:
7.25", dots, no binding, Rosewood fretboard, vintage frets.
For me there's no reason to mess with that, and the closer to that in new guitars, the more likely it is that I will consider purchasing them.

And anything that contributes to price drops in used gear prices is welcome (to address your other point).

I have a couple of Bass VI (Squiers) that I would try to get Vintera II necks and bridges for.

Ran

Tqi wrote:

kick_the_reverb wrote:

I don't like tall frets, though, which are very prevalent in Fender and Squier's recent line-ups.

Huh. Granted that my "Jazzmasters" are pretty well worn, I have to confess I don't prefer their medium-jumbo frets to the narrow-tall ones on my Jaguar. The latter seem much preferable. Different boats, etc.

The Scimitars

Last edited: Sep 20, 2023 15:21:50

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Last edited: Jan 31, 2024 16:13:46

Tqi wrote:

Woah nelly.

I happened to pop into my local guitar store today to order some mute kits and was slightly shocked to see they had a white-on-blue Vintera II Bass VI. That was quick.

The colour is very pretty. Unfortunately I live in neither Chicago or Guildford so I couldn't compare with the matching Squier 70's Bass VI, though I will note that has a painted headstock while the Fender doesn't. I still consider that poor showing, especially since it wouldn't be out of era for an early 60's VI to have that feature.

Nut was cut very well with no hitches when I tuned, so that's good - though I'm still cheesed that it's plastic. Neck felt good in the hand. I didn't plug it in, so I can't rate the pickups (they may well be great) but that's about where the positives end. The shop had just gotten this one in and hadn't done any setup, so it's understandable that the neck was a bit of a banana and the action was consequently very high. Less understandable was that the factory bridge setup seemed to be a 9.5" radius - the strings felt very flat and the action was much worse on the fretboard sides. And the colour was pretty, except for at the lower side of the neck joint where the lacquer had splintered - presumably from the neck being bolted on too tight.

I remember seeing similarly poor feedback on the Vintera I at launch, so it may just be "new model teething issues", but it's still pretty disappointing on a guitar that's four times the price of the Classic Vibe. If you want one, maybe hold out a couple months for them to get the hang.

It chagrins me that FMIC can’t see fit to come up with appropriate bridges for their Bass VI offerings, instead of offering the same off the shelf parts, regardless of neck radius, etc. at one time, I bought a Fender Custom Shop Bass VI, only to find that it came with a Jaguar bridge which could not be properly intonated. When I spoke to a Fender rep’ at the NAMM show, he suggested that I should have bought a “Masterbuilt”, which, IMO, was a tacit admission that Fender’s “Custom Shop” didn’t always live up to its prior billing.

The Offset bridge, be it Jaguar, Jazzmaster, Bass VI or even a Mustang, is a simple single stamping. It’s not like creating different adjustment ranges and/or radii requires a huge investment or the construction of some smokestack industry. What really frustrated me, in the example above, was that while Fender’s “Custom Shop” couldn’t be bothered to provide an actual Bass VI bridge with 1” of adjustment range, Fender Japan had an actual Bass VI bridge on their offering.

I think that Fender has always operated in an informational vacuum when it comes to the VI. It’s a brilliant instrument, and somewhat unique. I’ve been interested in the VI since 1967, have owned two of them, plus a Jaguar Baritone Custom, and to this day I can’t decide if the VI is a bass or a guitar.

In terms of pitch range, it’s a Bass, with an upper extension. In terms of timbre, it’s not anywhere close to a P-Bass and more trebly than a Jazz Bass. I’ve used a Bass VI as a bass, and if you roll the tone control back a bit, it can be a serviceable bass. But it doesn’t really feel or play like a bass. Hanging three feet away from my CIJ VI is a CIJ Mustang bass, which is to say that both share the same short scale, but feel and sound quite different from one another. If my phone rang and someone needed me to fill in on bass at a gig tonight, I’d grab the Mustang, first and foremost. If the gig were Surf oriented or was Country oriented, and there was a chance that I would play some lead lines, I’d probably bring the VI as a secondary instrument, because the VI loves to be played as a lead guitar.

I think that the VI is not the primary instrument for most players, and this is the conundrum of the VI. Going back to the ‘60s, when the VI was a great instrument which sold very slowly, the problem was that a VI sold for roughly the price of a Jaguar, so a lead player who had sacrificed a significant chunk of change to buy a Fender, be it Offset, Strat or Tele, would now have to make an equally great financial sacrifice in order to add the capabilities of a VI to their palette. So, if I was a hot Surf player in the early ‘60s, by the time I had bought a Jaguar, a Showman and a 6G15, chances are I would have devoted several mont’s pay into equipment and the VI would be tempting, but a financial burden for most people.

The Squier VI, IMHO, is a great idea, because now the VI is priced as a secondary instrument. The Surf player of today can add the capabilities of a VI for not much more than the cost of a premium G&G case for the treasured Jaguar, which is the star of the show.

As long as I’m on my soapbox, I will pontificate about one of Fender’s most successful failures, or perhaps one of Fenders most failure prone successes; the Jaguar Baritone Custom. In the early 2000s, Fender imported this instrument from Japan, which was a Jaguar with a stop tailpiece and a 28.5” scale tuned E-E. These were great sounding instruments, with a powerful voice, not to mention looking like a Jaguar, which is never a bad thing.

However, tne 28.5” scale was a bad thing. With an 0.095” low E string, the low E was too floppy, and all but impossible to play in tune. I used my JBC in a duo format, playing the bass line with the occasional triad on the upper strings, and the occasional lead line. It was great, except that my teeth were set on edge by the fact that the notes I played on the low E were always a bit sharp. Many JBC players went to higher tunings, such as A-A or B-B, but I wanted the full range down to E1 and this just didn’t work on the JBC.

Had they gone to a 30” scale, I truly believe that Fender would have knocked it out of the park. The stop tailpiece added some authority to the sound, probably because of a higher break angle over the bridge. S he rer makes the Hellcat VI, which is a 30”, three pickup E-E guitar with three pickups. I’ve never played one, but the specs would lead me to conclude that this be a great compromise.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Tqi wrote:

synchro wrote:

It chagrins me that FMIC can’t see fit to come up with appropriate bridges for their Bass VI offerings, instead of offering the same off the shelf parts, regardless of neck radius, etc.

To be clear, this is a Bass VI bridge, and to be clear again, it's the old threaded type with adjustable saddle height. It was just set to the wrong radius, which was really strange. I didn't exactly have any gauges with me so I couldn't tell you if it was exactly 9.5", 12" or something random. It was just really flat.

What I was getting at was the fact that this was a 7.5” radius fingerboard but they couldn’t see fit to install a bridge of the same radius. IMHO, that’s unforgivable. If the bridge elements are height adjustable, that mitigates to s9me extent, but would it kill them just to stamp out a bridge base of tne proper radius?

Tqi wrote:

synchro wrote:

at one time, I bought a Fender Custom Shop Bass VI, only to find that it came with a Jaguar bridge which could not be properly intonated. When I spoke to a Fender rep’ at the NAMM show, he suggested that I should have bought a “Masterbuilt”, which, IMO, was a tacit admission that Fender’s “Custom Shop” didn’t always live up to its prior billing.

Masterbuilt is the new Custom Shop, Custom Shop is the new Special Order?

That’s very accurate. They make a lot of profit from that Custom Shop logo, and it’s prestigious to some people, but I personally am not impressed.

Tqi wrote:

synchro wrote:

What really frustrated me, in the example above, was that while Fender’s “Custom Shop” couldn’t be bothered to provide an actual Bass VI bridge with 1” of adjustment range, Fender Japan had an actual Bass VI bridge on their offering.

See (again) my gripe about bone on the Vibe and plastic on the Vin2era. That said, I can think of one guy this benefits and I'm not mad about that - I'm really looking forward to getting my Staytrem Wide bridge. Because any Fender bridge, I'm still going to be suspicious about what it's made of under the plating - while the Staytrem wears the steel on the surface. See also my ABM Tune-O-Matic on the Daisy Rock and the rolled steel blocks on the Jagmaster. And see the current trend towards stainless frets. Solid steel guitar parts are basically always superior to non-solid-steel.

I'm guessing this was pre-John, did you buy the Japan bridge?

The OEM bridge on my MIJ VI was fine. It had a full 1” of intonation range, and matched the radius well. I did replace it with a StayTrem, eventually, once StayTrem were again available in the US.

Tqi wrote:

synchro wrote:

I think that Fender has always operated in an informational vacuum when it comes to the VI. It’s a brilliant instrument, and somewhat unique. I’ve been interested in the VI since 1967, have owned two of them, plus a Jaguar Baritone Custom, and to this day I can’t decide if the VI is a bass or a guitar.

I can, but it's very easy for me. I have this riff I wrote for an alt-rock band I was in a long time ago, which sounds great on my Jaguar, great on the Jagmasters and great on my Daisy. On the Bass VI it's a cacophony of chaos. Ergo, Bass.

I would agree, because the word “bass” speaks of a pitch range, and not a timbre. In the wind family, there are soprano, alto, tenor, bass and contra-bass instruments. The saxophone family ranges from an octave above the soprano sax on down to the sub-contra-bass saxophone, which gets very deep, almost to the limits of human hearing.

IMO, a P-Bass is a four stringed guitar, tuned from E1 to G3. It’s a member of the guitar family, just as an E2 to E4 guitar is, or an E3 to E5 would be if someone chose to build a fretted instrument in that range.

Nailing down instrument families is like nailing jello to a wall. The archtop guitar has a lot in common with the mandolin family. There are somprano, alto, tenor and bass mandolins. OTOH, you could think of an electric bass as a cousin of the double bass, which is part of the violin family.

My point here is not to increase confusion, but to point out that it’s easy to become entangled in the verbiage, but lose the meeting. The Bass VI is a bass by pitch range. Timbre is somewhat subjective. I would never state that a Bass VI sounds like a P-Bass, because it has a different note attack and a different spectrum of harmonic overtones. The VI can get closer to a Jazz Bass sound, and that Jazz bass sound is perfect for slapping, popping, etc.

As you mention, there are things you can play on a guitar which would sound terrible on a Bass VI. That’s a function of pitch. If you were to play a C Major triad (C-E-G) on the fifth, fourth and third strings of a guitar, it would sound ok, but if you did the same thing on a Bass VI it would sound terrible. The same thing would be true of any instrument. Play a C Major triad using three oboes and it would sound great, try the same thing on three tubas and it would sound like a train wreck.

Tqi wrote:

synchro wrote:

In terms of pitch range, it’s a Bass, with an upper extension. In terms of timbre, it’s not anywhere close to a P-Bass and more trebly than a Jazz Bass. I’ve used a Bass VI as a bass, and if you roll the tone control back a bit, it can be a serviceable bass. But it doesn’t really feel or play like a bass.

I mean look, if I can play the slap part from By the Way on it, it's a bass.

I see your point. Long before this conversation, it occurred to me that the VI could get pretty funky.

Tqi wrote:

synchro wrote:

I think that the VI is not the primary instrument for most players, and this is the conundrum of the VI. Going back to the ‘60s, when the VI was a great instrument which sold very slowly, the problem was that a VI sold for roughly the price of a Jaguar...

The Squier VI, IMHO, is a great idea, because now the VI is priced as a secondary instrument. The Surf player of today can add the capabilities of a VI for not much more than the cost of a premium G&G case for the treasured Jaguar, which is the star of the show.

I think that's a great take - I have 4 electric guitars, and this isn't even my only bass - I have the short-scale Daisy Rock, too. Would I pay £1200 for one of these? Probably not. But then it is the second most expensive instrument I've ever bought, after the Jaguar (£450, vs £400 for the VI) - so I may not be the best example.

Could I imagine having this as my only instrument? I mean, sure? It's everything I want out of a bass, and a little of what I want out of a guitar, and thanks to the don't-blow-up-the-cab switch I can play it in either kind of amp. But it wouldn't be my first choice. And if you told me I could have this and some guitars, but this would be my only bass? It's still not an immediate no, but there'd be a lot of soul searching.

The VI could be very useful as a solo instrument which could hold down the bass line while allowing some simple chords on tne top end. I actually did this, to so,e extent, in a duo, where a friend played rhythm and sang, while I held down the bottom end on the Jaguar Baritone Custom but used it as a guitar in some parts of the song.

Tqi wrote:

synchro wrote:

As long as I’m on my soapbox, I will pontificate about one of Fender’s most successful failures, or perhaps one of Fenders most failure prone successes; the Jaguar Baritone Custom... Many JBC players went to higher tunings, such as A-A or B-B, but I wanted the full range down to E1 and this just didn’t work on the JBC.

I've seen Manoj play one in some TGTB videos, didn't realise they had such a flaw. Reminds me of that Telecaster Baritone a while back where the bridge was just in the wrong place and impossible to intonate.

You have to wonder how it is that Fender can ship a product which is impossible to intonate.

Tqi wrote:

synchro wrote:

Had they gone to a 30” scale, I truly believe that Fender would have knocked it out of the park. The stop tailpiece added some authority to the sound, probably because of a higher break angle over the bridge. Schecter makes the Hellcat VI, which is a 30”, three pickup E-E guitar with three pickups. I’ve never played one, but the specs would lead me to conclude that this be a great compromise.

It is kind of ugly though. Daisy Rock were the best guitars Schecter ever made.

I agree, it doesn’t have the beauty of the VI. Leo Fender obviously had a great sense of style.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I traded a 50’s tribute LP for a Vintera II JM. Both reproduction 50’s guitars. Can’t beat that decade!

I agree with your evaluation. It’s a great guitar. The bridge is fine. I didn’t shim the neck. Vibrato is smooth and reliable.

One issue and it might only be mine.. the pickups are NOISY. Like, whoa. It does ground when touching metal. Is yours quiet?

Kitten and The Tonics

https://kittenandthetonics.com/